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Author Topic: Recoil Magazine Thinks Civilian Gun Ownership Predicated on Sporting Purpose  (Read 8809 times)

Offline GunLink

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They're taking a beating on facebook and around the internet on gun forums, etc.

SWR Suppressors and SilencerCo Pull Ads from Recoil Magazine Over Comments

"Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. [...] this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands."

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Offline GunLink

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Recoil editor Jerry Tsai has backtracked, issuing the following statement:

Quote
I’d like to address the comments regarding what I wrote in the MP7A1 article in RECOIL issue 4. First and foremost, I’d like to apologize for any offense that I have caused with the article. With the benefit of hindsight, I now understand the outrage, and I am greatly saddened that it was initiated by my words. Especially since, I am an unwavering supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights. I’ve chosen to spend a significant part of both my personnel and professional life immersed in this enthusiasm, so to have my support of individuals’ rights called into doubt is extremely unfortunate. With that said, I retract what I wrote in the offending paragraph within this article. It should have had been presented with more clarity.

In the article, I stated some information that was passed on to me about why the gun is not available for civilian purchase. By no means did I intend to imply that civilians are not responsible, nor do we lack the judgment to own such weapons, if I believed anything approaching this, clearly I would lead a much different life. I also mentioned in the article that the gun had no sporting purpose. This again, was information passed on to me and reported in the article without the necessary additional context. I believe everything published in RECOIL up to this point (other than this story), demonstrates we clearly understand and completely agree that guns do not need to have a sporting purpose in order for them to be rightfully available to civilians. In retrospect, I should have presented this information in a clearer manner. Although I can understand the manufacturer’s stance on the subject, it doesn’t mean that I agree with it.

Again, I acknowledge the mistakes I made and for them I am truly sorry.

Sincerely,
Jerry Tsai
Editor
RECOIL

Not good enough, Jerry

You made your position very clear with your original statement:

Quote
Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands. It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only. Its overall size places it between a handgun and submachine gun. Its assault rifle capabilities and small size make this a serious weapon that should not be taken lightly.

You say that there are good, justifiable reasons why civilians should not own firearms like the MP7.  This demonstrates a very clear disrespect for civilians and a fundamental lack of understanding of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.  You didn't help yourself with your followup statement:

Quote
Hey guys, this is Jerry Tsai, Editor of RECOIL. I think I need to jump in here and clarify what I wrote in the MP7A1 article. It looks like I may not have stated my point clearly enough in that line that is quoted up above. Let's be clear, neither RECOIL nor I are taking the stance on what should or should not be made available on the commercial market although I can see how what was written can be confused as such.
[...]
Let' also review why this gun should not be taken lightly. In the article it was stated that the MP7A1 is a slightly larger than handgun sized machine-gun that can be accurately fired and penetrate Soviet style body armor at more than 300 yards. In the wrong hands, that's a bad day for the good guys.

As readers of RECOIL, we all agree that we love bad-ass hardware, there's no question about that. I believe that in a perfect world, all of us should have access to every kind of gadget that we desire. Believe me, being a civvie myself, I'd love to be able to get my hands on an MP7A1 of my own regardless of its stated purpose, but unfortunately the reality is that it isn't available to us. As a fellow enthusiast, I know how frustrating it is to want something only to be denied it.

Its manufacturer has not made the gun available to the general public and when we asked if it would ever come to the commercial market, they replied that it is strictly a military and law enforcement weapon, adding that there are no sporting applications for it. Is it wrong that HK decided against selling a full-auto pocket sized machine gun that can penetrate armor from hundreds of yards away? It's their decision to make and their decision they have to live with not mine nor anybody else's.

I accepted their answer for what it was out of respect for those serving in uniform. I believe that we as gun enthusiasts should respect our brothers in law enforcement, agency work and the military and also keep them out of harms way. Like HK, I wouldn't want to see one of these slip into the wrong hands either. Whether or not you agree with this is fine. I am compelled to explain a point that I was trying to make that may have not been clear.

Thanks for reading,
- JT, Editor, RECOIL


Jerry, you can't have it both ways.  Your conflicting statements that I have highlighted above in bold belie your false "apology."  You made it abundantly clear how you felt about civilian ownership of such weapons and then extend that feeling to everyone else, saying that "We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on."  Then, in your backpedaling, you pass the buck by saying that your opinion that you wrote and assigned to everyone else was just information that was passed on to you.  Not only do you lack understanding of and belief in the Second Amendment, you demonstrate a lack of journalistic integrity by admitting that you parrot whatever information is fed to you (whether you agree with it, whether it is true, whether it is diametrically opposed to your target demographic's feelings, etc.) with no fact checking or research.

I fully support the manufacturers, vendors, etc. who are pulling out of your magazine:

SWR/SilencerCo:
Quote

Recently we were made aware of some disturbing “Editorial”  comments on behalf of Recoil magazine, concerning the illegitimacy of a certain firearm ( and by extension, an entire class of firearms)  for “sporting purposes”.

We feel these comments are counterproductive and are certainly NOT reflective of the opinion of Silencerco/SWR or the American shooting public.

Original Recoil Text:
[...]

The statements made by the editorial staff and others interviewed for the article were so poorly stated, factually inaccurate  and so misrepresentative  of the core values and beliefs of our company and our mission, that we have written the editor of Recoil magazine and asked him to discontinue all scheduled advertising for both Silencerco and SWR products.

We sincerely hope that the owners of Recoil will get a strong message from the shooting public and all reputable manufacturers that our people will not tolerate the mindset behind those statements. We urge you to make your opinion known to recoil and their advertisers.

Thank you for your continued support of our company, our sport and our collective right to keep and bear arms.


Panteao Productions
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I learned today about the article in the latest issue of RECOIL magazine on the HK MP7A1, or more specifically the comment within the article by the editor pertaining to who should own an MP7A1. I also saw the follow up in their Facebook page explaining their reasoning behind the editorial. For those that have not already seen the response from their editor, here it is:

[...]

Panteao Productions has a very clear position when it comes to the Second Amendment. We do not agree with the opinion of the editor from RECOIL magazine and I am personally very disappointed that he would make such a statement about what he views as a firearm that should not be getting into the “wrong hands”. I would have expected that kind of ignorant comment coming from someone not in the firearms community or from one of the anti-gun organizations.

Until such time that the staff of RECOIL magazine changes their view on firearm ownership and the Second Amendment, Panteao Productions will be discontinuing all scheduled ads in their print publication and website and requesting that all Panteao video content be removed from their website.

I hope that someone at RECOIL magazine steps up and issues a formal apology to the firearms community. They have a great concept for their magazine and it would be a shame to see it go away. The ball is in their court with regards to how they handle their mishap.

Thank you for your continued support of Panteao Productions.

Fernando Coelho
President/CEO
Panteao Productions LLC


Midwest Armor & Strategic Solutions
Quote
Friends,

Midwest Armor has been made aware of the issues with RECOIL magazine and their article on the HK MP7A1 and the comments by Editor Jerry Tsai. Midwest fully supports the 2nd Amendment and the right of every law-abiding person to own firearms, body armor, submarines, or rocket ships, if that's what they want.

While Midwest was not yet an advertiser with RECOIL, we had been in recent negotiations for a 12-month full-page run. At this time, we have expressed to RECOIL that we will not be acquiring that advertising space.

It is regretful that a magazine about firearms and related equipment could take a stance that the 2nd Amendment only applies to "sporting purposes" and that certain guns are not to be trusted in the hands of their own readers.

We hope that RECOIL owns their mistake and makes the appropriate changes to their culture.

Thanks,
Tom McClure
President of Operations
Midwest Armor & Strategic Solutions
http://www.midwestarmor.com
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:06:45 PM by GunLink »

Offline GunLink

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Haley Strategic Partners:
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The Haley Strategic Partners team was disappointed to learn of an article and later, public comments, made by a editor at Recoil Magazine which indicated certain weapon systems were not suitable to be possessed or operated by responsible members of the American public. We take issue with this.

At Haley Strategic, we choose to train responsible citizens, law enforcement officers and military professionals in our courses ranging from basic to advanced Disruptive Environments. In short, we help Americans prepare. Weapons systems are tools. Tools built to preserve lives in life threatening situations. There is no reason to prevent responsible citizens from utilizing any tools that will improve their odds of surviving such an event.

We take this very seriously. Every person in at Haley Strategic believes that, as Americans, it is our responsibility to be prepared, both mentally and physically, for worst case events, whether they happen to ourselves and our loved ones, or innocent people caught in an unfolding tragedy.

As such, Haley Strategic Partners will indefinitely suspend all advertising and collaborative efforts with both Recoil Magazine and RecoilWeb.com.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:03:50 PM by GunLink »

Offline GunLink

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ITS Tactical
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One of the truly disappointing things about his statements is that he did it on the backs of RECOIL’s advertisers, readers and everyone that’s made the publication what it is today. ITS has advertised in RECOIL for the past two issues amongst some of our good friends in the industry and on Friday had plans to continue to advertise in the next issue. In light of Mr. Tsai’s comments, we’ve since cancelled those plans. (read full response)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:02:49 PM by GunLink »

Offline GunLink

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Bravo Company USA
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Over the weekend, a justifiable firestorm exploded over the comments of an editor of RECOIL magazine regarding firearms access and ownership in America. The BCM and Bravo Company USA teams share the outrage of the firearms community and will not support any organization that so directly opposes the core principles our company and country was built on.

"Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that's technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of."- Jerry Tsai, editor of RECOIL Magazine.

This statement echoes those of the extreme left wing, big government anti-gun zealots, who argue for magazine capacity restrictions, "assault" weapon bans, and the effective repeal of the 2nd Amendment. It also shows a very profound and fundamental misunderstanding of The Constitution, American history, absolute power, and human behavior.

The founding fathers made the right to keep and bear arms second only to the freedom of speech in the Bill of Rights. Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, George Mason, Samuel Adams and so many others, labored tirelessly to create a new nation with laws free from the tyranny of the old country. A place where the government would represent the people, not repress them.

As Americans, we have the luxury of living in a developed society where we can develop ourselves through education and critical debate. We have a responsibility to question ideas and confront issues that we have a stake in as citizens of this nation, be that the rights of yourselves or the rights of others when threatened by the state. Firearms are, first and foremost, a tool to secure your life and the lives of others, against any aggressor.

The people at Bravo Company USA and BCM support responsible civilians having access to the same tools of Law Enforcement to effect the same ends. Securing and defending ourselves, our loved ones and innocent people if the situation arises.

As of this time, Bravo Company USA and BCM cannot continue it's support of the publication. We have asked the editors to suspend our web ads while we continue discussions with the management and staff about a satisfactory resolution to this situation.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:01:34 PM by GunLink »

Offline GunLink

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Magpul Industries
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Recently, the editor of RECOIL magazine wrote comments regarding who should and should not have access to certain firearms, as well as comments meant to clarify his initial statements. We at Magpul were severely disappointed in the apparent position of the author and by the comments themselves. We have been asked to provide a response to these comments and a statement regarding our intent to continue or discontinue advertising in RECOIL.

At Magpul we consider ourselves proponents of a culture of personal responsibility, where individual liberties are the true roots of our passion. Firearms are tools that can be an expression of those liberties, and more importantly, the guardians of them. When we were presented with the opportunity to support a new publication, called “RECOIL”, that had a different look and feel, we were on board. We had hopes that the broad appeal and fresh look of a publication of this type could be a big help in getting more people involved and interested in firearms and firearm freedoms issues. We welcome all who enjoy or appreciate firearms for any lawful purpose, as greater numbers strengthen our cause. We also want to partner with those who share our appreciation of the true struggle we are in regarding our Second Amendment freedoms.

Due to concerns about content and true motivation, we allowed our support for RECOIL to expire, with the current issue being our last, until we could determine if we were truly speaking the same language. The recent comments and subsequent clarification made by the editor of RECOIL are completely counter to our position here at Magpul. These statements proved that there is an apparent gap between our values and those of RECOIL. As such, we have chosen not to continue or renew any advertising support for RECOIL magazine unless and until we are convinced at some future point that this publication truly shares our values and has the best interests of Magpul and our customers in mind.

We sincerely hope that the outpouring of Second Amendment support as a result of these comments can continue with as much strength towards educating existing and potential new shooters about the importance of firearms rights and in contacting elected officials to preserve those rights. We look forward to future efforts to reach a broader audience through individual effort, and perhaps through an appropriately focused publication, to continue growth in the number of Americans who enjoy celebrating our Second Amendment heritage.

Offline GunLink

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DSG Arms:
Quote
Recently the editor at Recoil magazine stated that a weapon he was reviewing should not be in civilian hands on the basis that there was no "sporting application" for it. Regulating firearms based on an arbitrary "sporting" requirement runs counter to the basic rights originally guaranteed by our Constitution. The use of terms such as "sporting application" and "sporting purposes" by members of our industry can only signal tacit acceptance of this misguided premise and invite more incremental
erosion of our basic Constitutional rights.

DSG has suspended our advertisements with Recoil magazine until such time we are convinced - by words and action - that their organization understands and supports the rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution as they were originally intended.

Offline GunLink

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TNVC:
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"Those willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."
- Benjamin Franklin

As military and law enforcement veterans, we at TNVC are staunch supporters of the 2nd Amendment and believe the government has no right to restrict or infringe on the rights or law abiding U.S. citizens’ ability to own firearms of any type. To think otherwise shows a clear ignorance of the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights, and everything this great nation stands for. Like many of you, we were taken aback by the words printed in Issue 4 of RECOIL magazine:

"Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that's technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of."- Jerry Tsai, editor of RECOIL Magazine.

We take great offense that a defense industry publication would let something like this go to print. The 2nd Amendment is clearly not about allowing citizens to own guns for "sporting purposes" or "hunting." It is to allow the citizenry the proper arms in which to defend itself from an oppressive and tyrannical government that aims to strip the population of its rights; something so eloquently illustrated by the U.S. War for Independence. The difference between an armed population and an un-armed population is the same as that of a citizen of a country and subject to a ruling class.

When TNVC was originally approached by RECOIL before the launch of their first issue, we had very high hopes for the publication. It was unlike any other magazine in the industry and was likely able to capture a whole new audience, showing them the culture of firearms heritage that we hold so dear. Its great potential was equaled only by its rapid fall from grace when three sentences laid waste to their solid foundation.

We at TNVC have invested a lot in RECOIL, both in time and dollars spent advertising. And, we are extremely saddened to see such a promising publication implode due to lack of judgment and/or understanding of the firearms culture in which this great nation is founded. It not only let us down, but our founding Fathers, and all who have given the ultimate sacrifice to insure our America is the last hope of freedom.

Because of our core beliefs and support of what is right, we cannot continue support of a publication that does not have a clear black and white understanding of the 2nd Amendment and the principals on which the United States is founded. To this end, as of today, TNVC Inc will cease further advertising and sponsorship with RECOIL magazine until such time that we believe their staff fully appreciates the magnitude of the 2nd Amendment.

Sincerely,
Victor Di Cosola, Owner
TNVC Inc.

Offline GunLink

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EM Gear
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We at EM Gear completely reject the position of the RECOIL magazine editor with regard to his statements in the HK MP7A1 article. The lack of understanding of the critical role of the 2nd Amendment to the protection of the freedoms recognized in the U.S. Constitution is staggering. “Shall not be infringed” is plain English.
EM Gear cannot continue to support RECOIL magazine with our advertising dollars at this time. We do hope that the magazine will understand how seriously the community takes this situation and will take the necessary steps to ensure its readers and advertisers that they share the strongly held beliefs in freedom and liberty that we do.

Offline GunLink

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We especially like this one, which exhibits a crystal clear understanding of the Second Amendment.


Ares Armor
Quote
We have received numerous emails and calls over the past couple of days in regards to Mr Tsai’s Comments. If his comments were made in an intentionally malicious manor towards the Second Amendment does not matter, what matters is that they were made.
We offer our customers the ability to fulfill their 2A rights by giving them the opportunity to legally make their own weapon that is unserialized.
Ares Armor does not support advantages given to the government and not the people. We believe it is important for the people of our Great Nation to be capable of defending themselves, not just from thieves and scoundrels but from tyranny. Obviously, Ares Armor at this time can no longer continue to support Recoil Magazine through advertisement dollars.
What is far more reaching about this event is the incredible reaction from the Industry. Public beatings have not gone out of style. It is inspiring to see the amount of Red Blooded Americans that came together on this issue. I am writing this on the anniversary of 9/11. I am amazed at how quickly our Country forgets, how quickly our people betray themselves. Like an emotional mob we have allowed our rights to be chiseled away one by one, all the while saying “if they take one more that’s it.” Where is the line?
We all just came together to pounce on Recoil Magazine for making an asinine comment. How I wish there was this much anger focused on “our” Legislature that deem themselves our masters. How I wish there was this much anger focused on “our” Judges that create law from the bench. How I wish there was this much anger focused on “our” President who passes out executive orders as if he is King. How I wish there was this much anger focused on the loss, even of a small degree, of any of our rights that are natural to Man. The Rights that our forefathers fought and died for. The Rights that our children may never know.
I pray that if it does come time to refresh the tree of Liberty, all of us that were so quick to Judge Mr. Tsai have the guts to keep our faith and follow in line with the Oaths we took to defend from enemies both foreign and domestic.
Remember the Battle of Athens
Semper Fidelis
-Dimitri Karras, Aaron Russell, Mike Rogers, Jeremy Tuma, Jon ZuMallen


Offline GunLink

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Re: Recoil Magazine Thinks Civilian Gun Ownership Predicated on Sporting Purpose
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 04:39:07 PM »
HK Pro Shooting Team:
Quote
Some readers have misinterpreted a recent feature story in RECOIL magazine as a reflection of HK policy. Heckler & Koch has a long presence in the US civilian market and throughout that time has been an ardent and passionate supporter of the Second Amendment and the American civilian shooter. This will always be the case. The contents, opinions, and statements expressed in that feature story are those of the writer, not Heckler and Koch's. Additionally, the writer and RECOIL magazine have issued a clarification and apology for the ill-chosen words used in the story.

The HK MP7A1 4.6 mm Personal Defense Weapon mentioned in the story is a selective-fire product (capable of “full automatic” fire) and is currently restricted to military and law enforcement agencies by BATF. HK-USA has previously researched introducing similar commercial products, chambered in 4.6 mm, but it was determined that the final product would not have enough appeal or be legally feasible.

— Heckler & Koch USA


No, HK, the readers didn't misinterpret anything.  Jerry Tsai and Recoil Magazine put that on YOU and called the rest of us stupid for thinking anything less.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 04:40:58 PM by GunLink »

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Re: Recoil Magazine Thinks Civilian Gun Ownership Predicated on Sporting Purpose
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2012, 12:19:37 PM »
Yankee Hill:
Quote
Due to recent events regarding Recoil magazine and their statements regarding civilian ownership of certain firearms, YHM has decided to allow our advertising contract with Recoil to expire. YHM is and always has been a supporter of the second amendment and we feel the statement in Recoil is contradictory to our company's philosophy. YHM has chosen not to renew any further advertising with Recoil until we feel satisfied that YHM and Recoil share the same views on all of our second amendment rights.

Offline GunLink

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Offline GunLink

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Re: Recoil Magazine Thinks Civilian Gun Ownership Predicated on Sporting Purpose
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2012, 10:45:19 PM »
Jerry Tsai is out:

Quote
t is with deep sorrow that I announce I am stepping down as editor of Recoil, effective immediately.

It is very difficult for me to walk away from something I helped create, something that I loved doing, and something I firmly believed would appeal to a fresh new generation of gun enthusiasts, but I accept that the comments in my story in the current issue have made my position as editor of Reco
il untenable.

With that said, Recoil is bigger than any one person, and if my departure will allow Recoil to continue to grow and engage gun enthusiasts, then stepping down as editor is clearly the right thing for me to do.

I accept I made mistakes, and I apologize unreservedly for calling Recoil’s support for Second Amendment rights into question.

While I understand the passions aroused over this incident, the deeply hurtful words from some of my fellow gun enthusiasts have been painful to endure. I hope now we can all move on.

Finally, I would like to thank all those who have supported me over the past few days. These are the people who know me to be at heart a passionate gun enthusiast whose dream was to make something bold and new in firearms media.

Jerry Tsai

We can't recall seeing anything other than support for him (and, by extension, his comments) from the rest of the magazine staff, publishers, et al (particularly in light of the Associate Publisher's statement).  We hope that manufacturers, vendors and potential customers keep that in mind when considering Recoil in whatever future they have left.  Pretty pictures of guns and tactical fashion tips or not, I'm not convinced we would not be better off starting from scratch with a completely different publication that exhibits an unwavering view of the Second Amendment, what it stands for and how strongly their target demographic feels about it.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 10:49:41 PM by GunLink »

Offline GunLink

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Re: Recoil Magazine Thinks Civilian Gun Ownership Predicated on Sporting Purpose
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2012, 10:56:37 PM »
STATEMENT FROM SIM (Source Interlink Media)
Article by Recoil Staff



Quote
Source Interlink Media (SIM) today announced it had accepted the resignation of Recoil editor Jerry Tsai. Mr. Tsai will leave Recoil effective immediately.

SIM, a leading men’s interest media company, will continue to publish Recoil, a gun lifestyle magazine that has to date proven to be a highly popular new title in the firearms sector.

“SIM gives its editors a lot of freedom in terms of how they run their brands,” said Chris Argentieri, President of Source Interlink Media. “In this particular case, however, mistakes have been made, and Mr. Tsai is stepping down.

“There should be absolutely no misunderstanding that Recoil is fully supportive of, and committed to, Second Amendment rights,” Mr. Argentieri added.

Mr. Argentieri also announced Joe Galloway, Associate Publisher, 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords, Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords, has been suspended until further notice.

SIM is actively seeking a new editor for Recoil, and looks forward to improving its approach to responsibly delivering engaging gunenthusiast content with the next issue and beyond.

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Re: Recoil Magazine Thinks Civilian Gun Ownership Predicated on Sporting Purpose
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2012, 10:52:01 AM »
What a bunch of boneheads. Thanks for keeping us updated.  My rights are not negotiable.  Its sad that people in charge of a gun magazine just don't get it.

Why did the founding fathers include the second amendment?

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." –Thomas Jefferson


Where do these guys (a gun magazine of all people) get the idea that the potential tyrants should be better armed that the "subjects?"

Offline GunLink

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No Lawyers - Only Guns and Money blog is reporting that Iain Harrison has announced that he is leaving Crimson Trace to become the new editor of RECOIL magazine.

No word yet on whether the anti-gun owners of the magazine, its management or other editors who backed Tsai's initial anti-2A comments are still around.

RECOIL will continue to not see any of my money.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 06:25:05 PM by GunLink »