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Tandemkross

Author Topic: Rare Breed FRT-15  (Read 2718 times)

Offline masfonos

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Rare Breed FRT-15
« on: August 21, 2021, 12:35:02 AM »
Anyone been following the FRT-15 happenings? That's the forced reset trigger where the bolt closing forces the trigger to reset so it's easier to pull it again. The feds want to call it a machine gun now  ::)

Rare Breed's behavior and business setup are curious enough to make me think they have an ace up their sleeve to push the issue in court. I hope this is the straw to break the Chevron camel's back and stop some of the over reaching BS from the BATFE.

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Rare Breed FRT-15
« on: August 21, 2021, 12:35:02 AM »

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Offline TheHarleyB

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Re: Rare Breed FRT-15
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2021, 11:24:42 AM »
They filed their amended complaint  https://theinfidel.co/blogs/rare-breed-news/rare-breed-triggers-amended-complaint

It looks like a slam dunk. 48 pages but worth the read. Good luck, Rare Breed.

Offline Glockzilla3K

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Re: Rare Breed FRT-15
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2021, 04:08:20 PM »
Read the case they keep talking about how ATF "made it a machine gun" just by adding a zip tie. If that is all it takes they will say it is readily convertable and say still a machine gun.

Offline masfonos

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Re: Rare Breed FRT-15
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2021, 06:00:02 PM »
They might try to say that. I didn't see any video or any test procedures, but I don't think it's what they say it is. I guess they are trying to say that the zip tie in a "static" position acts as fixed object and the trigger resetting hits that fixed object and "pulls itself" again. Based on Rare Breed's videos and description of how the FRT works, that isn't possible. At best, in their own imagination, the zip tie flexes enough to act as a spring that the reset stretches and, when it bounces back, it pulls the trigger.

I'll have to dig around to find it, but I think this is the same thing they did to Len Savage to claim his sample upper was a machine gun. They used zip ties, loose chains, and all sorts of other bad faith tactics. Reading Len's side of things, the ATF has a flat out vendetta against him and treat him unfairly because of it. They even expressed as much in writing in emails. IIRC, that was a decade ago and last I heard they still haven't given his sample back.

Either way, I'm not sure it matters since the complaint alleges that the FTB was manipulating the zip tie to get each shot to fire. Put plainly, they tied a zip tie to the trigger and used that to pull the trigger each time instead of using their finger to pull it each time.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 10:54:35 AM by masfonos »

Offline Glockzilla3K

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Re: Rare Breed FRT-15
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2021, 10:47:34 AM »
I missed that part. Should I know who Len Savage is?

Offline masfonos

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Re: Rare Breed FRT-15
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2021, 11:23:17 AM »
Len Savage is a guy from Historic Arms who has a history with ATF not fairly calling balls and strikes for him. He's probably not a household name. I have screenshots of some of his posts and documents about his dealings with ATF somewhere. I'll post them when I get a chance to look.

Also... Player Two has entered the game. https://www.wotar15.com/ Wide Open Triggers "Hard Reset Trigger"

Really, they must be player 4 or 5. I found this https://www.recoil-technology-systems.com/graves-v2-art.html from the guy that invented the technology. According to his timeline:

- In 2014 Thomas Allen Graves invents the World’s first fully integrated positive displacement trigger reset technology type firearm.
- In 2015 Thomas Allen Graves provides positive displacement trigger reset technology to WOLF TACTICAL LLC.
- In 2020 WOLF TACTICAL LLC provides positive displacement trigger reset technology to RARE BREED TRIGGERS LLC.
-In 2021 Thomas Allen Graves provides positive displacement trigger reset technology to ALAMO TRIGGERS LLC.


I couldn't find anything about Wolf Tactical or Alamo Triggers. Graves' website shows a picture of the Alamo. Since it's from this year I wonder if it's pre-production. The FRT-15, WOT, and Alamo all look the same. WOT says "patent pending" though, so it must use different tech?




Offline masfonos

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Re: Rare Breed FRT-15
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2021, 11:30:43 AM »
The Rare Breed complaint also references the TacCon 3MR trigger. GunLink covered them at SHOT Show 2014 & 2015. My friend has one. I couldn't get it to go that fast, but he can really rip it.

I think it works differently but does pretty much the same thing. ATF said its "positive reset characteristic" was fine.

https://firearmsystems.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/TAC-CON-TM-ATF-Compliant-Letter.pdf

"The FTB examination [...] showed that when the selector was placed in the horizontal position (apex at 3 o'clock), the reset lever pivots forward, and the hammer engages/contacts the lever during the cycling of the rifle. In this position, the hammer contacts the reset lever during cocking, which applies force to the trigger, forces the shooter's finger forward, and allows the trigger to reset rapidly.

In the course of our evaluation, FTB personnel installed the submitted 3MR trigger into an AR-15 type rifle housed in the ATF National Firearms Collection for test firing. During this phase, a function test was performed before live-fire was conducted. The 3MR functioned only semi automatically during both the field test and live-firing.

In conclusion FTB has determined that the 3MR trigger assembly is not a part or combination of parts that will convert a semiautomatic firearm into a machinegun. "