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Author Topic: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?  (Read 1430 times)

Offline leadfarmer

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Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« on: October 06, 2017, 10:48:16 AM »
Are you kidding me?  >:(

I don't own a bumpfire or really even care about them, but I get so sick and tired of them desparately clutching at any thing they can to take nibbles out of 2A rights.  It is especially disgusting when they exploit American's deaths to do it.  Right after the attack in Las Vegas Hillary was saying that it's a reason to kill the hearing protection act... wth does that have to do with anything?  Now all kinds of politicians are calling for a ban on bumpfire AND THE NRA IS OPEN TO COMPROMISING ON IT!?!?!?

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Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« on: October 06, 2017, 10:48:16 AM »

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Offline leadfarmer

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2017, 10:49:53 AM »
(FAIRFAX, VA) - The National Rifle Association today issued the following statement:

"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented.  Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control.  Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks.  This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world.  In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law.  The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans' Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities.  To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."


I am so mad and disgusted right now

Offline LivingDeadGirl

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 02:50:18 PM »
the BATFE clearly defines semi-automatic fire as trigger pull equals one shot. The bump stock doesn't change anything about that definition. And I have heard some people fire a normal semiauto with a really good trigger and trigger control that sounds almost like automatic fire too! So they are going to regulate how fast you can possible pull the trigger?

Offline masfonos

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 04:40:28 PM »
They already opened their mouth, stuck their foot in, and then rammed their head up their a$$ with the first statement.  Now this statement says that they oppose THIS BILL but I don't see anything about a real change of opinion.

I think it's time to give a lot of the NRA board their walking papers and bring in new board members that will actually "STAND AND FIGHT" for 2A rights.  That's why I don't understand so many people walking away from their memberships.  Be a voting member and vote for a board that stands for what you want!


http://freebeacon.com/issues/nra-opposes-new-bump-fire-stock-ban-bill/
NRA Opposes New Bump Fire Stock Ban Bill
Bill's language may reach far beyond bump fire stocks

The National Rifle Association announced on Wednesday its opposition to a new bill that would ban any firearm part that effectively increases the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle.

"We are opposed to the Feinstein and Curbelo legislation," Jennifer Baker, a spokesperson for the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action, told the Washington Free Beacon.

Offline leadfarmer

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 10:00:29 AM »
I'm tired of being sold out by the groups and politicians that are supposed to be serving us and standing up for the constitution.  All they said was that they oppose that one bill because it goes too far/is too broad. They already said that they want "devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations".

If they want to go back to being (or staying) the NRA that is about protecting peoples deer rifles and bird guns then screw them.  The restrictions on automatic firearms are already unconstitutional and should have been undone with the Miller case in the 30s.  Does the NRA want to protect the 2nd amendment or not?

Offline LivingDeadGirl

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 07:59:37 PM »
I can't tell wha they're up to anymore. It almost seems like someone is lobbying them or they're trying to find a "middle " ground just like this bum rinos in Congress on everything they campaigned on.  Or maybe it's Russia's fault?

Offline masfonos

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now? - MA did!
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2017, 12:07:31 PM »
Massachusetts just signed their budget bill into effect and it had a bumpstock ban built into it.   :o  With a mandatory 18 month sentence with up to LIFE IN PRISON for owning an accessory that was legal yesterday morning!

I guess in 90 days they start treating bump stocks and trigger cranks like machine guns, which are a big no-no in MA.




Boston.com story
Boston Magazine Story

It'd be easy to say that the Massholes are getting the government they deserve, but the dirty politicians that do this crap are everywhere.  Who will be next?  Colorado, Nevada, Washington?

Offline Panther97

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 03:46:31 PM »
Wow.  Sad for the the birthplace of the American Revolution to stomp on rights like this.  People around here have been selling them for 5-600 for the last month.

Offline Gunz

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 06:45:06 PM »
The ATF is taking comments up to January 25th on pending regulations that could ban bump stocks.  Submit your comments to OPPOSE NEW REGULATIONS ON BUMPSTOCKS now. 

Submit comments here



The following is from GOA:

1.  BUMP STOCKS DO NOT FALL WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF “MACHINE GUN” UNDER THE NFA.

The Obama administration was correct when, in 2010, it determined that bump stocks did not convert semi-autos into fully automatic firearms.

Federal law says, in part, that a machine gun is a weapon that can fire “automatically more than one shot ... by a single function of the trigger.” The definition includes “...any part designed and intended solely and exclusively ... for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun...” (26 U.S.C. 5845(b))

According to this definition, a “bump stock” does not fall within this definition.

With a “bump stock,” each and every round is discharged as the result of an independent pull of the trigger.  So it is simply untrue that the “bump stock” assists the discharge of more than one round “by a single function of the trigger” -- no matter how fast the gun discharges rounds. 

One pull, one discharge.  This is the classic textbook definition of a SEMI-automatic firearm.

If the ATF were to illegitimately use a standard based on “increasing the rate of fire” to ban or regulate bump stocks, then what is to stop it from illegitimately holding that other rate-increasing devices -- like belt loops, sticks or fingers -- are “machineguns” as well?  YouTube abounds with examples of people using these items to increase the rate of fire of their semi-autos.

 
2. ATF HAS NO CONSTITUTIONAL OR LEGAL AUTHORITY TO BAN OR REGULATE BUMP STOCKS.

The ATF's statutory authority, contained at 6 U.S.C. 531, is very narrow.  Nowhere does federal law give ATF the general authority to regulate the safety of firearms, accessories, or parts.  This is important, because, if federal law did do this, then it could administratively ban semi-automatics, or handguns, or all guns.

Constitutionally, the Second Amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms “shall not be infringed.” Our rights are not privileges from the government that can be revoked or regulated at will. And regulating or banning bump stocks would serve as unconstitutional infringements.
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Offline TheHarleyB

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2018, 04:18:27 PM »
Press secretary said at the briefing today that they are "looking into options about how to regulate bumpstocks" after they were used in Las Vegas. Funny how that's one of the only things (or at least that we're told from the leaked crime scene photos) about the whole Vegas attack.

Offline masfonos

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Re: Trump memo on bumpstock regulations
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 11:53:47 AM »


Presidential Memorandum on the Application of the Definition of Machinegun to “Bump Fire” Stocks and Other Similar Devices

After the deadly mass murder in Las Vegas, Nevada, on October 1, 2017, I asked my Administration to fully review how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulates bump fire stocks and similar devices.

Although the Obama Administration repeatedly concluded that particular bump stock type devices were lawful to purchase and possess, I sought further clarification of the law restricting fully automatic machineguns.

Accordingly, following established legal protocols, the Department of Justice started the process of promulgating a Federal regulation interpreting the definition of “machinegun” under Federal law to clarify whether certain bump stock type devices should be illegal.  The Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking was published in the Federal Register on December 26, 2017.  Public comment concluded on January 25, 2018, with the Department of Justice receiving over 100,000 comments.

Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.

Although I desire swift and decisive action, I remain committed to the rule of law and to the procedures the law prescribes.  Doing this the right way will ensure that the resulting regulation is workable and effective and leaves no loopholes for criminals to exploit.  I would ask that you keep me regularly apprised of your progress.

You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.

DONALD J. TRUMP

Offline LivingDeadGirl

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 04:27:03 PM »
Only 100,000 comments in a month? I would have thought it would be more.

On that note, I think and hope, this a show to make the point there’s nothing illegal about these accessories and never has been. Maybe we will even get the chance to educate some people about the ridiculous BATFE rules and get some changes there.


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Offline masfonos

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Only A Few Bump Stocks Turned In To Police Despite Massachusetts Ban
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2018, 12:04:16 PM »
😂😂😂

Essex Police Chief Peter Silva held up a bump stock that someone turned in this week as the Massachusetts ban on the devices went into effect. “To my knowledge, this is the only one that’s been turned in to date,” he said.

State Police said they received three bump stocks and one trigger crank, as Massachusetts now becomes the first state in the country to make the devices illegal.

John Rosenthal, who heads up the group Stop Handgun Violence, lobbied for the ban. “There’s no question in my mind that people won’t turn them in,” he said.



http://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/02/02/bump-stock-massachusetts-ban/

Offline masfonos

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😂😂😂

Zero.

That’s how many gun owners accepted an invitation from the Denver Police Department to surrender bump stocks, Denverite reported. The device increases the rate of fire for semi-automatic weapons to nearly that of fully-automatic firearms.

The Denver City Council voted to ban bump stocks in late January, a move the Associated Press called “largely symbolic.” Previously, Denver banned the types of semi-automatic rifles that can be modified with bump stocks. The city council also voted that, “in most cases,” it is illegal for residents to own magazines “that hold more than 15 rounds of ammunition.”

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/03/18/how-many-people-complied-with-a-denver-police-notice-to-surrender-bump-stocks-not-a-single-one

Offline leadfarmer

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 02:52:54 PM »
Good. I'm glad people in Mass. and Colo. aren't turning in their legally purchased accessories. Let them come for them. Maybe we'll see a case that gets fought up to the supreme court. Maybe we'll win it. Maybe they'll kick in doors to "come and take them".  Despite the picture of people lined up to turn in their guns in Conn. last I heard it was "only" about 15% compliance. Or maybe they'll just keep passing "little" infringement laws like this until only a handful of people have guns and they're all buried in the yard or rusting away inside walls not doing any good.

Now... where are the NRA and other groups to stand up and fight these laws?

Offline GunLink

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Trump Tweets: We WILL BAN Bump Stocks
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2018, 07:31:49 PM »
Donald Trump: "Obama Administration legalized bump stocks. BAD IDEA. As I promised, today the Department of Justice will issue the rule banning BUMP STOCKS with a mandated comment period. We will BAN all devices that turn legal weapons into illegal machine guns."

Fox News: "#Trump administration bans bump stocks, 'all devices' that turn 'legal' weapons into machine guns"






Offline GunLink

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2018, 04:59:17 PM »
Attorney General Sessions Announces Regulation Effectively Banning Bump Stocks

Today, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced that the Department of Justice is proposing to amend the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, clarifying that bump stocks fall within the definition of “machinegun” under federal law, as such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger.

In making the announcement, Attorney General Sessions made the following statement:

“Since the day he took office, President Trump has had no higher priority than the safety of each and every American,” said Attorney General Jeff Sessions. “That is why today the Department of Justice is publishing for public comment a proposed rulemaking that would define ‘machinegun’ to include bump stock-type devices under federal law—effectively banning them.  After the senseless attack in Las Vegas, this proposed rule is a critical step in our effort to reduce the threat of gun violence that is in keeping with the Constitution and the laws passed by Congress.  I look forward to working with the President’s School Safety Commission to identify other ways to keep our country and our children safe, and I thank the President for his courageous leadership on this issue.”

On February 20, 2018, the President issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.” This NPRM is in response to that direction, and would make clear that the term “machinegun” as used in the National Firearms Act (NFA), as amended, and Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended, includes all bump-stock-type devices that harness recoil energy to facilitate the continuous operation of a semiautomatic long gun after a single pull of the trigger. If the NPRM is made final, bump-stock-type devices would be effectively banned under federal law and current possessors of bump-stock-type devices would be required to surrender, destroy, or otherwise render the devices permanently inoperable. The comment period for the NPRM is 90 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.   

Offline GunLink

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2018, 05:00:55 PM »
AG Sessions has issued the NPRM to classify bumpstocks as machineguns and regulate them via the NFA.

http://blog.gunlink.info/2018/03/24/doj-moves-to-classify-bump-stocks-as-machine-guns/

https://www.justice.gov/file/1046006/download


PART 447--IMPORTATION OF ARMS, AMMUNITION AND IMPLEMENTS OF WAR
 
1. The authority citation for 27 CFR part 447 continues to read as follows: Authority: 22 U.S.c. 2778, E.O. 13637,78 FR 16129 (Mar. 8, 2013).
2. Amend the definition of "Machinegun" in 447.11 to read as follows:

447.11 Meaning of terms.

Machinegun. A "machinegun", "machine pi stol", "submachinegun", or "automatic rifle" is a weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in convelting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control ofa person. For purposes of this definition, the term "automatically" as it modifies "shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot," means functioning as the result of a self-acting or se lf-regulating mechanism that allows the firing of multiple rounds through a single function of the trigger; and "single function of the trigger" means a single pull of the trigger. The term "machinegun" includes bumpstock-type devices, i.e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.


PART 478--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION

3. The authority citation for 27 CFR part 478 continues to read as follows: Authority: 5 U.S.c. 552(a); 18 U.S.c. 921-931.
4. Amend the definition of "Machine gun" in 478.11 by adding two sentences at the end of the current text, to read as follows:

478.11 Meaning of terms.

Machine gun.
For purposes of this definition, the term "automatically" as it modifies "shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot," means functioning as the result of a self-acting or self-regu lating mechanism that allows the firing of multiple rounds through a single function of the trigger; and "single function of the trigger" means a single pull of the trigger. The term "machine gun" includes bump-stock-type devices, i.e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.



PART 479--MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS

5. The authority citation for 27 CFR part 479 continues to read as follows: Authority: 26 U.S.c. 7805 .
6. Amend the definition of "Machine gun" in 479. 11 by adding two sentences at the end of the current text, to read as fo llows:

479.11 Meaning of terms

Machine gun.

For purposes of this definition, the term "automatically" as it modifies "shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot," means functioning as the result of a self-acting or se lf-regulating mechanism that allows the firing of multiple rounds through a single function of the trigger; and "single function of the trigger" means a single pull of the trigger. The term "machine gun" includes bump-stock-type devices, i. e., devices that allow a semiautomatic fi rearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.







Offline luckystrike

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2018, 11:20:15 AM »
Great it looks like the NRA and DJT and the gun grabbers got what they wanted. This is crazy. What else will it cover? Echo and taccon triggers? Cranks? Fast fingers?

 >:(

Offline Panther97

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Re: Are they going to ban bump stocks now?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2018, 12:19:27 PM »
478.11 Meaning of terms.

Machinegun. A "machinegun", "machine pistol", "submachinegun", or "automatic rifle" is a weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in convelting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. For purposes of this definition, the term "automatically" ... means functioning as the result of a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism that allows the firing of multiple rounds through a single function of the trigger; and "single function of the trigger" means a single pull of the trigger. The term "machinegun" includes bumpstock-type devices, i.e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.

It sounds to me like this would cover the echo triggers too. They changed it from the original text that just said "single function of the trigger" to say that "function" means "pull."  https://atf-eregs.18f.gov/478-11/03-1657#478-11-p3589220758
The echo triggers can fire two rounds with one "pull" even though there are two "functions"

 

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