BATF Classifies .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC as Pistol Ammunition

[GunLink]

Why this classification matters:


This letter was recently posted on the Elite Ammunition website.  I wonder what the ATF is playing at here.  

BATF Classifies .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC as Pistol Ammunition
July 11, 2011

BATF and EA Recent Finding.

EA has had to remove our Trident bullets in .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges. Since they are now pistol cartridges their construction now falls under the content and construction limitations of the 68 GAC and pistol cartridges.

Currently from other bullet makers like Barnes, solid .223 caliber bullets are still being manufactured and sold . We are working with our BATF IOI person to find out the following,

A) Is Barnes bullets and all other maker that constructs solid bullets in .223 going to have to stop.
B) If not then why do we have to stop since out basic shape and metallurgical content of our PFP bullets are the same as theirs?
C) Since they are now handgun caliber limited how does Magtech solid copper pistol bullets not fall under the 68 GAC as AP?
D) If Solid copper is not considered a violation of the 68 GAC in handgun bullets then it should also be not a violation of the 68 GAC to make EA’s PFP bullets from solid copper as Magtech does.

Those who have T6 ammunition and PFP bullets will be contacted by the BATF to recover any bullets or ammunition that have not been FIRED yet.

I apologize for this inconvenience and hopefully we can get this matter straightened out one way or another.

Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

I think that the problem arises from the following excerpts from the 1969 Gun Control Act (GCA - GAC, sic):

(17) (A) The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.
(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

Armor piercing ammunition. Projectiles or projectile cores which may be used in a handgun and which are constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or full jacketed projectiles larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. The term does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, frangible projectiles designed for target shooting, projectiles which the Director finds are primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectiles or projectile cores which the Director finds are intended to be used for industrial purposes, including charges used in oil and gas well perforating devices.

§ 922 Unlawful acts.
(a) It shall be unlawful—
  (7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, unless--
    (A) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;
    (B) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the purpose of exportation; or
    (C) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General;

By classifying these rounds as pistol cartridges, the ATF basically prohibits the production of effective hunting rounds for these rifles.  With no ammo, the firearms are useless and become very expensive sticks.  Its not quite a de facto ban, but it's getting there.

[Uncle Buck]

Is the .223 a common pistol cartridge?

Just about any rifle cartridge (And some shotgun rounds) will fit pistols, be they custom made or production runs.

[masfonos]

No, it's not all that common but .223 pistols do exist such as the Contender or the Bushmaster Carbon-15 and other AR-pistol variants.  You're right about many "rifle" cartridges being able to be used in pistols.  There are even youtube videos of a .50 BMG pistol.

I think it basically comes down to "if the ATF says it's pistol ammo, it's pistol ammo."

Sucks for rifle shooters in those calibers in locations where you need a license to purchase handgun ammunition 

[1slickAR15]

From the ATF document:

Exemptions: The following articles are exempted from the definition of armor piercing ammunition.

5.56 mm (.223) SS 109 and M855 Ammunition, identified by a green coating on the projectile tip.

U.S. .30-06 M2AP, identified by a black coating on the projectile tip.




I read elsewhere that the company was operating in somewhat of a gray area with the rounds it was producing (amongst other things that ticked off more than a few customers).  I don't personally have any expereince with them, it's just what I read online.

[GunLink]

Thanks for posting those exemptions, 1slickAR15

[masfonos]

Here's more info from Jay Wolf:

Yes we where raided. 15 grand in stock taken off our shelves, computers and anything else they wanted.

They had a ruling and it was created the day before. The search warrant was created late that afternoon of the same day and in the morning the 8 ATF folkes where coming through my door.

They let me look at it but not make copies and did not bring copies for me of the new interpretation.

I believe that the ruling that he's talking about is the ruling that those calibers are "handgun ammunition," which is what makes the brass projectiles they were producing illegal according to the 68GCA.  It is my understanding that, prior to that ruling, those projectiles were perfectly fine for use in rifles (you know, like they were designed for!!!).  I could be way off though.

[Uncle Buck]

Unbelievable!  I have not heard anything from the NRA about this,but I would imagine it is coming.

Thank the Good Lord that lead bullets are exempted from the EPA.

[masfonos]

Thank the Good Lord that lead bullets are exempted from the EPA.

For now 

Don't think that the ATF couldn't or wouldn't pull a "Did you know you have a tail light out, boy? .... *smash*" deal and come up with some reason to make whatever they don't care for against some rule?

If what Jay says is true, the ATF made a (from what I gather, unpublished) ruling one day and, based on that ruling, without warning performed a raid the next day on someone who the previous day was running a legit business. 

Something stinks.

[GunLink]

Some additional info I found while poking around the internet:

In reference to the Barnes bullets that Jay Wolf mentioned, I believe he was speaking of the Barnes Banded Solids, which are "machined from homogenous copper/zinc alloy" according to the Barnes website.  An alloy of copper and zinc is better known as...brass.

In addition to the above product page listing the ballistics of .223, 6.5mm and 7mm (the diameter of 6.8SPC projectiles), they are also currently available for sale from the Barnes online store.  According to the letter of the law and, apparently, the ruling touted by the agents who allegedly raided Elite Ammunition, these rounds are "armor piercing."

As for Mr. Wolf's points C and D, I'm not sure what he would be talking about.  Solid copper bullets are not a violation of of the 1968 GCA as they are not of a construction mentioned above in 17(B)(i).  If the ATF agents who raided Elite and confiscated his products took his copper projectiles it was likely because they were grabbing everything they could.  I highly doubt if the average ATF field agent knows the difference between copper and brass or could spot the difference.  Or that they would care.  The issue is not with the projectiles being solid, it is with them being made of brass.

[1slickAR15]

i agree that something smells fishy.  still nothing on the ATF site about any such ruling

[GunLink]

Below is a letter from 2008 in which someone asked the ATF if the Barnes Solid was considered to be "armor piercing."

The ATF reply states that they are not considered to be AP rounds because they are made of a "homogeneous copper/zinc alloy."  As stated above, the definition of brass is:

brass [brɑːs]
n
1. (Engineering / Metallurgy) an alloy of copper and zinc containing more than 50 per cent of copper. Alpha brass (containing less than 35 per cent of zinc) is used for most engineering materials requiring forging, pressing, etc. Alpha-beta brass (35-45 per cent zinc) is used for hot working and extrusion. Beta brass (45-50 per cent zinc) is used for castings. Small amounts of other metals, such as lead or tin, may be added Compare bronze [1]

brass
   /bræs, brɑs/ Show Spelled[bras, brahs] Show IPA
–noun
1.
any of various metal alloys consisting mainly of copper and zinc.

And brass projectiles which may be loaded into a round capable of being fired from a handgun are considered to be armor piercing rounds.

I can't imagine how Mr. Spencer came to the conclusion that he did.

[GunLink]

Additional information posted by Elite Ammunition president, Jay Wolf:

These folkes have more detailed information some of which they may or may not be able to share.

NRA-Legislative Counsel
Robert Pew who is Research & Information-NRA
Jeff Knox-The Firearms Coalition
Larry Pratt-Gun Owners of America
Alan Gottlieb-SAF




This is the law firm we have looking into this.

http://www.shawlawltd.com/

Any additional follow up comments will be made after counsel review.

No surprise, they're not making any comments until they've spoken to their lawyer.  I'm frankly surprised they've made the statements they have.

[Uncle Buck]

They advetised on their website (now missing, I can not find it) that they sold BRASS Bullets. 

I believe the copper-zinc referenced above was mostly copper, very little zinc.  Something sounds a little fishy from this whole thing, and it does not appear it is the ATF.

[GunLink]

Brass bullets are fine...for rifles.  There wasn't a problem with them making brass rifle ammunition, as far as I know.  They are good high-speed, low-drag, aerodynamic target and hunting rounds.  Once they start calling them pistol rounds though, they're considered "armor piercing" and are generally not legal to manufacture or sell.

I'm working on a writeup about the similar situation with 7.62x39 ammunition (like that used in AK-47 variants, SKS rifles, Ruger Mini-30 rifles, etc) and how its classification as "handgun ammunition" is why we no longer see cheap surplus (or otherwise) steel-core ammunition in that caliber.